tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519234397783312626.post6056446209883456150..comments2023-10-09T11:42:57.305-04:00Comments on Healthcare, etc.: Manipulating scienceMarya Zilberberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16080475886113209344noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519234397783312626.post-5784035358493585562010-11-14T17:51:34.757-05:002010-11-14T17:51:34.757-05:00Dear Orac, thanks for coming back. I am totally un...Dear Orac, thanks for coming back. I am totally unclear on the utility of pointing out that my arguments "sound like" some "common anti-vaccine canards". I would find it a lot more helpful to understand why my arguments are flawed. Do we have some data somewhere that tells us that it is completely inconceivable that some environmental exposure over one's lifetime along with having had a vaccination as a kid cannot several decades down the road result in some adverse outcome? These are the multiple and potentially interacting exposures that I refer to, and they are notoriously difficult to study.<br />It is entirely unhelpful to dismiss my argument out of hand because it sounds like someone else and then accuse me of building a straw man. Are you not in effect calling me anti-vaccine and anti-science when you say that I sound like that? Are we not engaging in equivocation?Marya Zilberberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16080475886113209344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519234397783312626.post-56394040456222270062010-11-14T16:49:50.509-05:002010-11-14T16:49:50.509-05:00"To assert, as has been done here, that quest..."To assert, as has been done here, that questioning any aspect of either the vaccine usefulness or the science of evolution for that matter equates to supporting the "anti-vaxers" or creationism, betrays a deep misunderstanding of how science is advanced. Indeed, it is by questioning certain aspects of science that do not seem to make sense that scientists both gain a better understanding of these ideas and at the same time demonstrate to the public how different our ways are from the entrenched dogma of organized religions."<br /><br />Spare me. This is what I wrote:<br /><br />"I realize that Dr. Zilberberg probably doesn't realize it, but this line of argument comes perilously close to Jenny McCarthy's beloved "too many too soon" slogan. Let me also say that I believe her when she says she is not anti-vaccine. Even so, she carelessly throws around rhetoric that, whether she realizes it or not, echoes a lot of anti-vaccine rhetoric. (And who is more of an expert on anti-vaccine rhetoric than I? Not many.) As Steve so aptly put it, what she's doing is akin to someone expressing skepticism towards some aspect of evolution and thereby appearing to support creationism because she didn't know the ways creationists distort and abuse science in the name of attacking evolution. She does the same thing here with vaccines. For example, elsewhere on her blog, as I mentioned before, Dr. Zilberberg referred to "rabid defenders of vaccines," while complaining about the lack of philosophical exemption laws in most states. Let's put it this way. If you don't want to be perceived as an anti-vaxer, don't refer to defenders of vaccines as "rabid" and don't start referring to the possibility of vaccine interactions in a way that is reminiscent of the arguments that anti-vaccine advocates make. I realize that Dr. Zilberberg's mistake is probably due to ignorance of the corrosiveness of the anti-vaccine movement, the depths of pseudoscience to which it regularly descends, and a lack of familiarity with their fallacious arguments, but hopefully this exchange will serve to educate her to be more careful in the future."<br /><br />Once again, you do very much love the straw men arguments, don't you? My complaint was not that "questioning any aspect of either the vaccine usefulness or the science of evolution for that matter equates to supporting the "anti-vaxers" or creationism." There's the massive straw man. My complaint was that you in your ignorance of the anti-science tactics of the anti-vaccine movement led your "questioning" to sound an awful lot like some very common anti-vaccine canards.Orachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01370846202152605202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4519234397783312626.post-55033034543997834932010-11-06T21:33:09.806-04:002010-11-06T21:33:09.806-04:00Well said. I have little to add.
I just had a lo...Well said. I have little to add.<br /><br />I just had a look at the orac link my lord they really like working themselves up into a groupthink lather don't they. But of course it's all outreach for the public good.<br /><br />Bleck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com